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 Toraba Collectors' Forum > Community News , Alerts, Rants > Casualties > Thieving,Profoundly Dishonest American Dealer In Tokyo.

Topic: Thieving,Profoundly Dishonest American Dealer In Tokyo. - 19 replies

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Original Message Post # 1
Sat 31st Jul 2010 15:49
David Roche
Joined: 30/07/2010
Topics: 1 Replies: 7
I am a new member to the forum but had followed the Toraba armour page  for some time and am just as disappointed as many others that it is no longer available.When I was finally able to contemplate buying a suit of Armour, June 2005, I was unfortunate enough to make contact with an American dealer based in Tokyo who offered a suit  for sale. This individual still deals in Tokyo and has links to many sites offering all manner of Japanese antiquities. He claims to be an expert on this that and the other and will be "delighted to work with" you as he advertises,so that you find what you are looking for!!. To cut a long story short, I was sent images of a suit of Armour at a quote "good price" duly went through the process of transferring £3,675 U.K. pounds to the Americans bank account in Tokyo. You can in all probability deduce the rest. I got a message  informing me that when he ( the said American) went to collect the armour from the old man from whom he (The American) had bought it,apparently the old mans sons had raised Caine and would not allow the armour to be sold. All absolute crap!!. I was then inundated with a variety of poorly photographed items all good deals,I replied that the photgraphs were very poor and in essence, we appeared to be getting no where and my money should be returned. This of course never did happen,all that followed was a lunatic tirade about how hard he had tried to please me,about the suits of armour that he had bought in an effort to meet my needs and the many thankless hours he had spent working for me for no  reward. I was systematically bombarded with e-mails in indignation that I should suggest he was anything other than honest, all absolutely pathetic and still no money. He eventually, through his bank, refused to refund my money. I referred the matter to my regional Police Force here in Scotland and in short order the Fraud section contacted me,delighted to pursue the case as experiece of what was obviously going ot be a growth area of the future,internet theft!!.  All evidence and statements were translated into Japanese and forwarded to Interpol,where some arrogant ego decided that it was not sufficiently important. When I protested, the local police paid me a visit with regard to my protestations and were told the same all over again. I have tried newspapers, politicians,my son visited his gallery in Tokyo,went to the Metrepolitan police,spent hours giving statements all to no avail,five years on I am still down £3,675 and am utterly amazed that nobody appears to want to confront this American thief. I am not done yet,however I still boil when I see his likeness grinning from his bullshit online sites proclaiming what  a good guy he is. I have made hundreds of phone calls and e-mails, always the same,either insults or nothing. I have identified that by no means am I the only victim of his thieving practices. I have no doubt that other forum members know of him and of course as he does he will check sites like this. I am still very much on his case now have a Japanese ally very keen to bring him down. I  would greatly appreciate comment on this post,for as I have said,by no means am I done yet . 
Post # 2
Top Sat 31st Jul 2010 19:51
estcrh
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Joined: 09/10/2008
Topics: 12 Replies: 134
Quote from David Roche - 31st Jul 2010 15:49 View
I am a new member to the forum but had followed the Toraba armour page  for some time and am just as disappointed as many others that it is no longer available.When I was finally able to contemplate buying a suit of Armour, June 2005, I was unfortunate enough to make contact with an American dealer based in Tokyo who offered a suit  for sale. This individual still deals in Tokyo and has links to many sites offering all manner of Japanese antiquities. He claims to be an expert on this that and the other and will be "delighted to work with" you as he advertises,so that you find what you are looking for!!. To cut a long story short, I was sent images of a suit of Armour at a quote "good price" duly went through the process of transferring £3,675 U.K. pounds to the Americans bank account in Tokyo. You can in all probability deduce the rest. I got a message  informing me that when he ( the said American) went to collect the armour from the old man from whom he (The American) had bought it,apparently the old mans sons had raised Caine and would not allow the armour to be sold. All absolute crap!!. I was then inundated with a variety of poorly photographed items all good deals,I replied that the photgraphs were very poor and in essence, we appeared to be getting no where and my money should be returned. This of course never did happen,all that followed was a lunatic tirade about how hard he had tried to please me,about the suits of armour that he had bought in an effort to meet my needs and the many thankless hours he had spent working for me for no  reward. I was systematically bombarded with e-mails in indignation that I should suggest he was anything other than honest, all absolutely pathetic and still no money. He eventually, through his bank, refused to refund my money. I referred the matter to my regional Police Force here in Scotland and in short order the Fraud section contacted me,delighted to pursue the case as experiece of what was obviously going ot be a growth area of the future,internet theft!!.  All evidence and statements were translated into Japanese and forwarded to Interpol,where some arrogant ego decided that it was not sufficiently important. When I protested, the local police paid me a visit with regard to my protestations and were told the same all over again. I have tried newspapers, politicians,my son visited his gallery in Tokyo,went to the Metrepolitan police,spent hours giving statements all to no avail,five years on I am still down £3,675 and am utterly amazed that nobody appears to want to confront this American thief. I am not done yet,however I still boil when I see his likeness grinning from his bullshit online sites proclaiming what  a good guy he is. I have made hundreds of phone calls and e-mails, always the same,either insults or nothing. I have identified that by no means am I the only victim of his thieving practices. I have no doubt that other forum members know of him and of course as he does he will check sites like this. I am still very much on his case now have a Japanese ally very keen to bring him down. I  would greatly appreciate comment on this post,for as I have said,by no means am I done yet . 

We often hear vague comments about different dealers but its not often that someone has such clear evidence of CRIMINAL activity, I hope you eventually get some sort of closure on this matter, I myself have sent large sums of money to various dealers around the world and while I have never not received the item I purchased I know that at any time this could happen to me to. Good Luck and thanks for the warning.
Post # 3
Top Mon 2nd Aug 2010 11:18
Fudo Myo
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Joined: 19/03/2008
Topics: 26 Replies: 535
Hi David,

feel free the name and shame the b****rd here.

Post # 4
Top Wed 4th Aug 2010 18:23
David Roche
Joined: 30/07/2010
Topics: 1 Replies: 7
I have given this individual every opportunity to make amends, goods to the value etc etc,all to no avail. essentially all I have received are absolutely rabid communications as if i were the criminal and make no mistake, the actions of this "dealer" are blatant theft ie criminal. I discovered that the armour I had been offered was an auction lot which he did not manage to buy. he has never addressed the issue of returning my money. I have telephoned his store on many many occasions, I am told every time by a very polite English speaking assistant that Mr. so and so is not available,would I like him to call me back? needless to say this never happens. When my son was in Tokyo,he e-mailed to say that the armour I had chosen could be delivered to his hotel room  otherwise I should consult a lawyer .He knows exactly what he is doing and as I have already stated my case is by no means unique. Iwill of course continue to pursue him,probably until hell freezes over and I am in no doubt that one day all of this will come home to roost for Mr Thief. I do inform him of my actions ,he has no excuse other than the fact that he is a liar and a thief . At this point I do not know if his staff collude, if in fact they do and it were proven,they are in as much shit as he is. I was told in a conversation with a staff member who did know what was going on that Mr. Thief had no intention of returning my money. if he has ripped off just  ten people like me to the extent,£3,675, do the maths. Anybody who can help will be greatly appreciated. When I have the time and the money I will turn up on his doorstep,unfortunately he is too arrogant stupid or what ever to believe that,more fool him!!.
Post # 5
Top Wed 4th Aug 2010 19:19
David Roche
Joined: 30/07/2010
Topics: 1 Replies: 7
This guy is not hard to find,I only wish I had never found him at all!!. Only days later I found the Toraba site and saw a suit of armour I would have loved and well within the budget I had when I happened across Mr american dealer in Tokyo.  I reported him to his provider Trocadero, who contacted him armed with the information I had sent,they in turn sent his response which simply defied belief, apparently I am the worst customer ever,it was pathetic,all the time he'd spent working for me,the armours he had bought to please me (never did manage to send me even on suit from these mythical armours) never once touching on anything even vaguely resembling the truth,no mention of stolen money. Look Mr.M. even you must have worked out by now that if you falsely offered goods for sale, accepted the money,sent nothing and for the past five years have refused point blank ot return my money,even when approached by my bank here in  Scotland,then you are a bloody thief!!. if you spent as much time and applied as much effort to looking after customers as you do bullshitting and covering your thieving tail we might get somewhere. He claims to have been in Tokyo for a number of decades,at one point he even likened himself to the Samurai and while I remember, never did send me the details of his dealers license or the place of issue. It seems to me that the authorities are either just not interested or not looking hard enough or the parasite would have been imprisoned  and deported a long time ago!!.
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Post # 6
Top Thu 5th Aug 2010 14:41
ObsidianStar
Joined: 17/07/2010
Topics: 0 Replies: 9
I'm sorry to hear about you being taken advantage of but i have to agree with Fudo Myo, please feel free to name him here. An unfortunitly you may have to get a Lawyer to straighten his arse out and i'm sure with a large sum of money like that, it shouldnt be hard to track it through you bank details to his bank account. Still none of this is cheap and it's a long process to say the least an with any luck sometimes the threat of doing so works.

I almost had to file a law suit this year against a guy who does sword polishing and after he figured out that the tanto he was working on was a Gassan. Which i bought for 250.00 off E-bay and in bad polish was worth 5K , he wouldnt reply to me or give me a date when the project was done. My only saving grace is being military ,i have free legal counsel although not the best to be honest, luckly it was enough to have him send it back fast!

The best advice i can give others is calling your countries Better Bussines Bureau or what ever passes for it and looking into the seller and asking if there Registered /Licensed. An i always go with registered mail/ insured since they have to sign for it . Lastly keep all corespondence going from the seller and buyer to show the transaction. I hope this helps and if anyone has further insight please i'd like to know to better protect my interest and those like me!
Post # 7
Top Thu 5th Aug 2010 15:55
Hayashida Heihachi
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Joined: 06/02/2008
Topics: 5 Replies: 70

I'm going to Tokyo next month, where is this B---£)$d based?

Post # 8
Top Fri 6th Aug 2010 20:04
Tokugawa Iyeyasu
Joined: 04/02/2008
Topics: 24 Replies: 434
Fristly, you'll never find him. He doesn't avail himself to face to face encounters, unless you can find him hiding in one fo the low life bars he frequents.

Secondly I think we all know who this guy is. Do a google search and if you get over 17,000 homepages linked to the same guy, an American in Tokyo who is an expert on all and everything with stock piled to the roof tiles, you've found him.

I've had numerous people over the years approach me with similar stories of sending money and getting nothing and or some alternative pile of carp for their effort. Sadly there is little I can do but try to warn people about fraudsters like this, for which I have caught immense amounts of flak over the years.

The good news is this forum is hear for this purpose, to help collectors educate and thus protect other collectors. We've all been stung if your into Japanese armour. How bad and how often varies and many of you out there probably don't even know it yet, still believing in what you bought. Sorry for the added hours of lost sleep.

This is the place to expose scams. I've tried to locate this guy myself before and he makes himself extremely scarce when it comes to meeting him in person.

Most of his stock is not his. He goes around Tokyo and other places and takes pictures and then tries to pass the things off in the images as being his own. That is why there is no consistency to his backgrounds. He then hugely inflates the price and if he gets a bit runs off to if your lucky buy the piece and send it to you. Again if you are lucky.

Another thing he does is goes to big shows with people and stands in front of impressive displays and tables loaded with swords picks on up like any gaijin tourist and has a souvenir shot of himself taken. he then posts this on a homepage to look like the items seen in the images are his and the people around hima re his staff. It is a complete farce and this guy is a blight on humanity...

I only recently turned one guy off him and ended up getting a sale on an amrour ( not listed on the site ). The guy knew next to nothing about armour, and was being led down the garden path to a major disaster. he was however smart enough to shop around and when he showed me what he could get I explained to him what it was so that even a layman could realize it was a complete lie.

The sad part is as I have said so many times I can't even remember now, is it is harder for me to tell the truth about these things than it is for some idiot to make up a very palatable lie. It business for these guys folks. They sell you what you want to hear.

One of my major competitions who use to even foolishly supply for a while was an expert at marketing. he could turn any piece into something that had belonged to a daimoyu. He found old images, added crests, spiced things up and created totally fictional pedigrees for his items and made them SEXY. And he made a lot of money because people wanted to believe it. I had a chance to buy many of the things he later sold, having seen them sometimes years before and had passed on them because I knew there was something wrong with them whatever it was that made me say this is not the kind of stock I want to carry. I couldn't turn garbage it caviare, but he could because he was a salesman and knew how to spin things, and yet he knew almost nothing about armour. His webpage too showed showrooms full of armour, none of which was his. Its all smoke and mirrors.

I remember a guy on this site telling me I was an idiot because I told him the menpo in his kabuto/menpo match set were not matched. That I had seen the item previously at auction, knew who bought it and then where it went to be re-work and re-laced so that it appeared to match his helmet. People don't want to hear what they don't want to hear, especially if they are going to realized they got burned.

Then you get the trained experts who only tell you what is good for them. They rip the ass out of others people stock, but when a hachi has a modern shikoro on it, they don't mention it, or when two halves of a dou don't match, they somehow miss that small detail, unless you yourself are able to point it out. And yet people go back to these guys and buy from them. Does anyone wonder why I prefer direct sales now?

And then there are the sites where the guy even tells people he is an expert armour maker/restorer. And they all believe the are getting amazing untouched historical pieces from him? Clue in people! How do you think he manages that time and time and time again? He knows his stuff, so unless you do you are going to get burned. You have to check every last detail. If it doesn't exist, he can make it! And they do.

Anyway...the first book will finally be out soon. You can hold me to this. Goes to the printers in October. Not the title I wanted to start with but the one that needs to get wrapped up. Title two will be out around March, 2011 and a then several more every 3-4 four months after that for a while as i clear the back log of accumulated literature I have been preparing for years now.

Why do I mention this, as I hope the informing will helped level the played field and make it so you can teach yourselves about this items and not have to trust others, because too many of the guys in the know use this to take advantage of people, and the rest just don't have a clue so they just make it up.

No doubt there are people who really are doing their best to offer things in a manner which as far as they are concerned is correct and honest, and that can't be helped because again they for the most part honestly don't know, like when you see shoheigawa on an armour with date stamped on it that translates blah blah 1351, the average person is going to take that at fact value, ignorant of the fact that they still make shoheigawa today, with the same date stenciled on it and it is the most commoonly used pattern of e-gawa leather used in restoration and or reproduction items. Soak it in tea and it can look fairly weathered and old.

Pile in hear everyone and rip this idiot a new asshole of the appropriate size for him to fit in!

PS. Should be appearing in the Globe and mail later this week or next week in a interview in connection with the exhibition I am helping to organize right now which is stepping stone towards some other very interesting projects.

This is why I don't jam the homepage full of gear. I have a lot to do. I could create 10,000 homepages too if I just wanted to cheat people selling crap called samurai armour. It's easy enough to do apparently. But I'm committed to making this an honest market and for now have to approach it a different way.
Post # 9
Top Sat 7th Aug 2010 09:27
ObsidianStar
Joined: 17/07/2010
Topics: 0 Replies: 9
I think it's great that you've taken the time to write and produce books on this complex subject to help educate people like myself out here! An mainly to help level the playing field too against people that would try to dazzel us as opposed to show us the reality of many peices. Concerning your book though and books later on, i'd equate you to being the Fuller& Gregory ( Authors of Military Swords of Japan 1868-1945 ) of Samurai Armor which will be monumential for anyones Library! If by anychance for others reading this post and you dont know about Katan's of the Samurai Rebelion - Showa Era this is a good book to start with and build a library from there. Lastly when your books come out are there going to be any autographed editions too:)
Post # 10
Top Sat 7th Aug 2010 15:26
David Roche
Joined: 30/07/2010
Topics: 1 Replies: 7
In response to Tokugawa Iyeyasu: You have pre-empted my next post, this post.What you say is absolutely correct and you have allowed me avoid some time one finger typing. I will start by making a blanket apology, the reason for this is that the thief in question has false I.D.'s and checks sites like this,a necessary part of what he does!!. Should any responses to posts that may issue from myself appear a little guarded,that is why. The information offered re impressive images of the American thief posing with "his"stock is abslutely accurate,the observation that backgrounds to items offered for sale vary greatly is also accurate. The offender does indeed photograph items belonging to other people,claim them as his own and offer them for sale. My first encounter with this individual was my first and clearly disastrous foray into the world of collecting Japanese Armour,the cruel irony is that literally days later I found the Toraba site offering an item I would have loved to own and indeed within budget. I have suffered years of insults and bullshit from this man,the authorities do have to come to grips with this man and deal with him very harshly. You may in fact be right that I may never get to grips with him,I choose to find that out for myself,I am a very determined and focused individual,the same determinaton has left me a legacy of life issues from which it is unlikely I will ever find peace, this same madness absolutely demands that I get to him.  I could bang on for ever with regard to this parasite merely reinforcing what a piece of predatory effluent he is. He has cause me massive disappointment,I think mainly because,despite the way I have been required to live, handing out this sort of treatment is not anything I could or would do. I do not often have disposable income at that level, I have even less now.For the sake of would be collectors,enthusiasts and decent helpful people, the sort of individuals with whom we would all wish to communicate through forums such as this, this person has  to be  tracked down and pilloried. In case you the said individual are reading, sorry,when you the said individual is reading this, you took £3,675 U.K. pounds form me, you have concocted every lie possible to avoid returning my funds and have relied,on disinterest and distance to avoid being brought to task. So here we are Mr James Miller, the self proclaimed Tokyo Ronin from Gallery Samurai,you have had more decent opportunity to address the situation than a blight on humanity of your magnitude could ever deserve, you have  hurt me, dis-honoured your adopted country and its people and additionally have cast a long shadow of suspicion over those who make a living from their honest passion.In closing ( for the moment.) may I say, I  would dearly love and greatly appreciate some of the good guys  jumping in and backing this scumbag into a corner from which he cannot escape.The evidence which I presented to my Regions Fraud Squad sits with them still,however at some point it will land on the desk of a very senior Japanese politician who might just be interested.
Post # 11
Top Sat 7th Aug 2010 15:57
David Roche
Joined: 30/07/2010
Topics: 1 Replies: 7
Quote from David Roche - 7th Aug 2010 15:26 View
In response to Tokugawa Iyeyasu: You have pre-empted my next post, this post.What you say is absolutely correct and you have allowed me avoid some time one finger typing. I will start by making a blanket apology, the reason for this is that the thief in question has false I.D.'s and checks sites like this,a necessary part of what he does!!. Should any responses to posts that may issue from myself appear a little guarded,that is why. The information offered re impressive images of the American thief posing with "his"stock is abslutely accurate,the observation that backgrounds to items offered for sale vary greatly is also accurate. The offender does indeed photograph items belonging to other people,claim them as his own and offer them for sale. My first encounter with this individual was my first and clearly disastrous foray into the world of collecting Japanese Armour,the cruel irony is that literally days later I found the Toraba site offering an item I would have loved to own and indeed within budget. I have suffered years of insults and bullshit from this man,the authorities do have to come to grips with this man and deal with him very harshly. You may in fact be right that I may never get to grips with him,I choose to find that out for myself,I am a very determined and focused individual,the same determinaton has left me a legacy of life issues from which it is unlikely I will ever find peace, this same madness absolutely demands that I get to him.  I could bang on for ever with regard to this parasite merely reinforcing what a piece of predatory effluent he is. He has cause me massive disappointment,I think mainly because,despite the way I have been required to live, handing out this sort of treatment is not anything I could or would do. I do not often have disposable income at that level, I have even less now.For the sake of would be collectors,enthusiasts and decent helpful people, the sort of individuals with whom we would all wish to communicate through forums such as this, this person has  to be  tracked down and pilloried. In case you the said individual are reading, sorry,when you the said individual is reading this, you took £3,675 U.K. pounds form me, you have concocted every lie possible to avoid returning my funds and have relied,on disinterest and distance to avoid being brought to task. So here we are Mr James Miller, the self proclaimed Tokyo Ronin from Gallery Samurai,you have had more decent opportunity to address the situation than a blight on humanity of your magnitude could ever deserve, you have  hurt me, dis-honoured your adopted country and its people and additionally have cast a long shadow of suspicion over those who make a living from their honest passion.In closing ( for the moment.) may I say, I  would dearly love and greatly appreciate some of the good guys  jumping in and backing this scumbag into a corner from which he cannot escape.The evidence which I presented to my Regions Fraud Squad sits with them still,however at some point it will land on the desk of a very senior Japanese politician who might just be interested.Almost forgot,it has been alleged by an individual in Tokyo that the name being used publicly by the offender may not be the name on the passport!!.

Post # 12
Top Sat 7th Aug 2010 16:10
ObsidianStar
Joined: 17/07/2010
Topics: 0 Replies: 9
Thank you greatly Mr. Roche for naming him here on the forum, I've viewed this guys web site before and i was thinking about purchasing some time down the road a Matchlock Rifle for my Tachibana Yori Rifleman! Once again i'm sorry for your past dealings with this guy but thank you for helping me out in not making a grave mistake.
Post # 13
Top Sat 7th Aug 2010 20:01
David Roche
Joined: 30/07/2010
Topics: 1 Replies: 7
Clearly I have no way of knowing whom you really are,if indeed you are whom you claim to be,I am delighted to be of assistance!!. Please do not take umbrage with regard to my response,, if in reality I have prevented you fiscal loss and consequent distress,that is something of what this is about and at the very least ,what I intend to pursue,like I said"UNTIL HELL FREEZES OVER!!. If you are reading this "Jamesie Boy",I have been allocated greater targets than you and prevailed.!!
Post # 14
Top Sun 8th Aug 2010 01:16
Tokugawa Iyeyasu
Joined: 04/02/2008
Topics: 24 Replies: 434
A touch hard on Obsidian Star I think. I beleive the feeling and comments were geniune. I recommend others contribute here. Lets not make this one persons experiecne as that is not very objective. Others must have comments about this matter which may even contradict what is being suggested here.
Post # 15
Top Sun 8th Aug 2010 03:00
estcrh
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Joined: 09/10/2008
Topics: 12 Replies: 134

People have asked about him on various forums,  there have been guarded responses from the negative side with none that I have seen were there were outright claims of fraud, I puchased 3 expensive items from him several years ago and paid with a bank transfer, the items arrived as described and on time...thats all I can say.  Due to the warnings from other people I have read I decided already to not make another purchase from him due to the payment method of bank transfer which leaves you at complete risk unless you can trust the seller, unlike Ebay and Pay Pal which will help you in the case of fraud..  

Something I will add here, recently I have seen some dealers who in the past appeared to be completely honest that now from time to time are selling fake or replica items which I have no doubt that they know are not legit.  I think that for people that make their living full time from selling antiques the current situation has caused them to lower their standards.  I think everyone who is thinking of making any purchase from overseas from someone they are not completely sure of should think hard before they make a decision.  Expecially if the seller says..no return or if the item is a high priced item which could cause you problems if you get ripped off. 

 

 

 

Here is a discusssion on Mr Miller from another forum>      http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6944&p=55313&hilit=samurai+gallery#p55313

Post # 16
Top Sun 8th Aug 2010 03:24
estcrh
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Joined: 09/10/2008
Topics: 12 Replies: 134
One more thing, I have purchased several items from Toraba and I never worry about if what I am buying will be different that what I was told...or if it will not be shipped at all....that has to be taken into account when making an expensive purchase and is WORTH paying for. I only worry about if I can afford the item!!!!
Post # 17
Top Sun 8th Aug 2010 08:53
David Roche
Joined: 30/07/2010
Topics: 1 Replies: 7
It was not my intention to be hard on anybody,if it appears so,for that I apologise. I agree entirely with regard to multiple comments and indeed a balance,however the fact remains that this is my experience,over which I continue to be greatly enraged. Miller has stolen a large sum of money from me,this is personal and was his absolute choice just as it appears to be his choice to conduct himself the way he does in causing me and many others distress and fiscal disadvantage. Thank you everybody for your input,makes me feel a little less isolated.  
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Post # 18
Top Sun 8th Aug 2010 15:27
kawari1
Joined: 06/02/2008
Topics: 25 Replies: 161
All I can say is that there is a kabuto in my collection which this dealer lists as being available through him and I certainly did not purchase it from him.

I also visited his "gallery" (more like a junk shop) which is located in a pretty dodgy, derelict building and I saw nothing of interest or quality. I did see the one composite armour that is all over his various websites (the one with the huge, wreath-like maedate), but was not impressed at all.
Post # 19
Top Mon 9th Aug 2010 08:40
Leroy
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Joined: 06/02/2008
Topics: 7 Replies: 344
I am sorry to hear your story, I also struck this bloke before I found Toraba, fortuneatly after looking at his site I felt a little uneasy as I noticed a "Korean helmet from the Imjim War" that he was chasing an "interesting" amount of cash for. What put me off was the fact I had seen several exact copies on e-bay of the same helmet with the same design for much less. Hopefully you  will have a win, but after this much time I don't have a good feeling, fingers crossed that perhaps after visiting one of these dodgy club (Trevor can you give me directions!)  the fleas from a thousand camels will infest a part of his body!. It is because of these dodgy b****rds that I have so much respect for Trevor.
Post # 20
Top Mon 9th Aug 2010 18:42
David Roche
Joined: 30/07/2010
Topics: 1 Replies: 7
Like you Leroy,I do not have good feeling either ,however,even this arseh...e must eventually have some sense of self preservation. I will not give up!!. Ultimately some of this will stick,how it sticks and the consequences of the sticking, who knows.
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